tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post6540413207465912664..comments2024-03-27T20:37:08.065+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Predator/Reaper and the GunshipsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-32032103177329529042011-12-17T02:26:30.107+01:002011-12-17T02:26:30.107+01:00That's irrelevant, for they haven't been i...That's irrelevant, for they haven't been in production in ages. The A-10C upgrade cost per airframe was probably even higher.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-60064502685816625152011-12-17T01:26:27.225+01:002011-12-17T01:26:27.225+01:00the A10 is 11.8M$ according to wikipedia.the A10 is 11.8M$ according to wikipedia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-61830071265481300422011-12-17T01:24:27.092+01:002011-12-17T01:24:27.092+01:00Why can't the predator be replaced by even che...Why can't the predator be replaced by even cheaper unmanned hydrogen blimps? With these you have almost no footprint and can cover all main insurgent areas while having fast COIN aircrafts for the few cases in between.<br />Perhaps someone has a cousin somewhere and they both agree that the best solution is an expensive new technology.<br />This reminds me about the story about a useful writing tool in space. The Americans invested much money and invented the ballpoint pen. The Russians used pencils.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-68623041364339873412009-02-16T15:28:00.000+01:002009-02-16T15:28:00.000+01:00I mentioned that in the last sentence. AC-27J seem...I mentioned that in the last sentence. AC-27J seems to become the AC-130U successor, but it's not really "mini".S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-90556851322123926342009-02-16T07:12:00.000+01:002009-02-16T07:12:00.000+01:00Interestingly enough, AF Special Operations Comman...Interestingly enough, AF Special Operations Command has recently shown interest in arming the C-27 Spartan as a "mini gunship".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-3581544011710382102009-02-13T23:29:00.000+01:002009-02-13T23:29:00.000+01:00Here is a little chart to frame some discussions, ...Here is a little chart to frame some discussions, these prices are undoubtedly wrong, but I think the order of costs is correct.<BR/><BR/>AC-130u 190M gunship<BR/>AC-130h 132M gunship<BR/>C-130j 67M cargo<BR/>C-130h 39M cargo<BR/>Ah-64 14M Attack copter<BR/>Reaper 13M Hellfire<BR/>A-10 this would be a interesting cost to have.<BR/>Tucano 7M COIN<BR/>Predator 5M surveillance<BR/>Cessna 208 2M utility<BR/>Sniper XR pod little over a 1M<BR/><BR/>I am not putting forth the Predator as a general purpose air support craft. Indeed it has a fairly narrow niche, that is very similar to the niche that a gunship occupy. Uncontested airspace, reduced air to ground missile threat. The Predator has an advantage in very small size, and situation awareness traded off against area of operation and large amount of firepower. The US currently only operates AC-130 during the night, there is also an on going concern about how to get bigger guns in to the AC-130 so that it can operate at high altitudes.<BR/><BR/>For the price of one AC-130 you can get from 10 to 38 drones,and the operating cost difference is someplace in that range also. This gets you much more situation awareness than you get with one gunship orbiting an area. Now I am not certain what would be the relative comparisons of the operating areas, of these two setups, I think there are too many variables to get a consistent answer. <BR/><BR/>For a general close air support I like the A-10 or a Tucano like craft, if money is a issue. A general close air support means I am doing this task cause it needs to get done, not because I am good at it. So a tough plane is a good feature, unfortunately Skyraiders are not around anymore.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02891026012522167083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-7559608377583943162009-02-13T18:41:00.000+01:002009-02-13T18:41:00.000+01:00Obsessive or not, speed is the only thing that ena...Obsessive or not, speed is the only thing that enables a few loitering aircraft to respond to emergencies in a large area.<BR/>You would need maybe 3-10 gunships to cover Iraq, but Predators need to be at the action before it begins - which means hundreds of drones for full coverage.<BR/><BR/>Now look at the size of Afghanistan and keep in mind that Bronco et al add many more capabilities and you'll see what's missing.<BR/><BR/>Predator looks like a permanent main supply route and raid surveillance tool to me, not so much like general air support.<BR/><BR/>OA-10's aren't much faster than a turboprop gunship (if at all).<BR/><BR/>ManPADS - well, there are countermeasures, and the gunships are operating at high altitude anyway. If any plane can carry enough countermeasures, then a spacious aircraft like a gunship.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-53883122542103398832009-02-13T18:33:00.000+01:002009-02-13T18:33:00.000+01:00Why the obsession with speed? The Predator only ne...Why the obsession with speed? The Predator only needs to go a little bit fast than the targets it is tracking or troops that it is supporting. The airplanes low speed allows it to use a very small engine, it is in essence a long winged Cessna 150 replicating that performance in a manned craft doubles the size.<BR/><BR/>Precision guided bombs made it possible for the Predator to support troops with out getting in the range of small unit anti-aircraft guns and ManPADS. The C-130 gunships are night attack weapons because they have been shot does by such weapons during the day. Guidded munitions are the enabling technology for a new method of supporting ground troops. Getting back in to that territory is a step backwards, not a good idea.<BR/><BR/>The weakness of the Predator is it demands totally controlled airspace, not just to keep the plane from being shot down, but to prevent the enemy to know where we are looking. It is not a front line aircraft, it has to operate where the only fighting is on the ground.<BR/><BR/>The planes you are talking about will suck at the Predators roles, and vice versa.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02891026012522167083noreply@blogger.com