tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post6996669834448272097..comments2024-03-27T20:37:08.065+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Will the Marine Corps APC racket ever end?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-78647235340773634102014-08-30T00:17:28.241+02:002014-08-30T00:17:28.241+02:00The problem with USMC amphibian procurement is the...The problem with USMC amphibian procurement is the Corps cannot seem to decide on the most critical design criteria: how many men it should carry!<br /><br />The Corps initially tried to replicate the personnel carrying abilities of the WWII Higgins boat (~36 men) in the various amphibious vehicles and helicopters it purchased, and continues to pursue a reinforced rifle squad (16-17 men) in current requirements.<br /><br />The automotive and protection demands of a vehicle required to carry so many troops is a key driver of cost and performance issues.<br /><br />That said, *the* driver of U.S. armored vehicle procurement is the U.S. Army, not the USMC.<br /><br />GABAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-44451166702859138032014-08-24T21:17:47.658+02:002014-08-24T21:17:47.658+02:00S O:
The Marines and Navy are thinking along tho...S O: <br /><br />The Marines and Navy are thinking along those same lines. Perhaps minus the ICO container unless they already have a beachhead. The Navy has the LCAC as a fast sled type that can already carry heavy armored vehicles from 50 miles out but the worry is that the ships survivability dictates more offshore distance. So I believe there is some development on that front for a high speed ship-to-shore connector.<br /><br />For the Marines they will pursue a wheeled combat vehicle with some light swimming capability for short distances in gentle surf and for rivers or swamps onshore. But they will also upgrade some AAV-7s and keep them if needed for beaches protected by coral reefs, or mangrove swamps or other hard to cross shorelines.. Not all the worlds shorelines are sand or gravel, very few in fact.<br /><br />I never went ashore in an AAV-7 as they were after my time. But the AAV-5 was a fun ride (not). When launched out of an LSD (Landing Ship Dock) they would sink like a stone seemingly forever before their buoyancy brought them to the surface. mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-48329686809477123192014-08-24T15:36:25.141+02:002014-08-24T15:36:25.141+02:00I have long held the opinion that (assuming the US...I have long held the opinion that (assuming the USMC isn't reverted to its pre-WWI role) a motor sled (fast and cut-down LCM) capable of carrying either a vehicle up to 40 tons or a ICO container to the beach (and free itself for a return trip) would be a superior approach. <br />It would allow the use of an AFV with inshore amphibiousness (even with expendable floats and no bilge pumps) at most = all army AFVs other than most MBTs.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-92184989188639525632014-08-24T04:51:10.777+02:002014-08-24T04:51:10.777+02:00S O: You are right sadly. It is a far cry from t...S O: You are right sadly. It is a far cry from the first model that was authorized for development in April 1940, seven months later in November, 200 production models were ordered, and they were delivered in August 41. They had an edge of course in that there was a primitive commercial version doing rescue work in the Everglades and Florida rivers since the mid 30s. But the production model was far different. Soon after they fielded several upgraded versions producing altogether over 18,000 during the war.<br /><br />leo715: Its an amphibious tractor for ship to shore ops - not an Armored Personnel Carrier that can cross rivers or swamps. Swimming is requirement number one - all others may be negotiable.mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09123137206598163451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-49623476347297912702014-08-24T04:43:39.975+02:002014-08-24T04:43:39.975+02:00The defense death spiral at work.The defense death spiral at work.kesler12noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-49920338246676429942014-08-24T01:42:55.714+02:002014-08-24T01:42:55.714+02:00Superficially it does (in comparison to the EFV).
...Superficially it does (in comparison to the EFV).<br />I didn't want to add insult to injury, though.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-1754643344224187712014-08-24T01:03:49.690+02:002014-08-24T01:03:49.690+02:00The Chinese ZBD2000 series is quite lovely. The Chinese ZBD2000 series is quite lovely. Nebrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974591864059776528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-22542882300654816702014-08-24T00:34:58.944+02:002014-08-24T00:34:58.944+02:00As far as I can tell the USMC wants too many featu...As far as I can tell the USMC wants too many features in it amphibious vehicle to get one for a reasonable price. I may be mistaken but the swimming capability is a killer.<br />Concerning the AFV in general - in most countries that are AFV developers the armor forces have been steadily cut back in the last 25 or so years. In this "climate" its better to upgrade the existing platforms, rather than muck around with new ones. This is exacerbated by the fact that all of the potentially aggressive neighbours have the same problem.<br /><br />The Polish Anders project is nice on paper, but it was obvious it'll be stillborn as Poland doesn't have the finances to replace its entire AFV/IFV/APC/SPA park, and without this replacement the Anders is just another platform among many others to be maintained and the financial benefits of commonality are lost.leo715noreply@blogger.com