tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post8062136200736428856..comments2024-03-29T13:09:31.522+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: [Economics] We systematically underestimate poor countries' economiesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-5883251207384547122013-07-16T19:39:43.888+02:002013-07-16T19:39:43.888+02:00I meant it ceteris paribus. The enrich the culture...I meant it ceteris paribus. The enrich the culture, but also import cultural incompatibilities. They add goods and services, but they also deserve to get their fair large share of them (which is about 2/3, with the final third going to capital owners as usual). The pay into social safety net, but they deserve to get this back (and often they get back more).<br /><br />Immigration to Germany is first and foremost an opportunity for some people to exploit immigrants (or hope for it) and an opportunity for others to cover up long-term problems which we should address instead.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-27098847086828287642013-07-16T15:54:22.980+02:002013-07-16T15:54:22.980+02:00When you say "immigrants offer little to thei...When you say "immigrants offer little to their host country", do you mean it relative to the domestically produced citizens?<br /><br />Rettawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-83119338420346036992013-07-12T00:32:24.635+02:002013-07-12T00:32:24.635+02:00How did you make the leap towards thinking that I ...How did you make the leap towards thinking that I dislike foreigners after me basically writing a lengthy post about how we underestimate workers of poor countries?<br /><br />A German and a Bangladeshi working in a factory may or may not have different output (it depends), but for sure the relative difference is nowhere near the GDP/worker ratio difference. There aren't going to be enough power blackouts in Bangladesh to make up for the difference either.<br /><br />Programmers, engineers - there are plenty. The economy has an insatiable hunger for more of them, but it doesn't utilise them well. I've seen a job offer for engineers (master in engineering) for the job of buying screws. Most engineers migrate to management positions because their employers make excessive use of engineers in management and because said employers suck at keeping their engineers satisfied in engineering jobs. It's similar with IT folks; there are plenty, but much talent is being wasted. More supply didn't and won't end the shortage.<br /><br />About foreigners, immigrants offer little to their host country other than more food choices and some foreign language talent (trade).<br />Many people believe they contribute to society through taxes and payments into the pension system etc, but this only works if you assume that you take more from them than you give back. I call this an expectation of exploitation.<br />It is better to let them work in their countries (and to let businesses set up facilities there).<br />The most anti-social thing are the repeated demands for more skilled labour immigration. This demand is an attempt to have a free ride on the education system of poorer countries.<br />Engineers trained in Bulgaria shall help build Bulgaria's industry.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-57008616337903604522013-07-11T23:39:38.132+02:002013-07-11T23:39:38.132+02:00One should always question their motives when they...<i>One should always question their motives when they demand more graduates or more immigration.</i><br /><br />Last time I checked, people were an asset, not a liability.<br /><br />If you don't like foreigners, just say so. Don't try to disguise it behind pseudo-economics.<br /><br />And do you actually think less programmers (for example) would be a good thing (for society that is) ?<br /><br />Also, <i>the reason why they 'earn' so much more here than there</i> is ... PRODUCTIVITY. While factory productivity may not be much lower than in Germany, infrastructure in the Third World is much worse - making total productivity low.Danielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-30529732679705715742013-07-11T22:32:43.111+02:002013-07-11T22:32:43.111+02:00To assign a Vietnamese man to the porter job is pr...To assign a Vietnamese man to the porter job is probably not much less of a workforce sacrifice to Vietnam than a German porter would be to Germans. One man's GDP/worker is lost.<br />The difference is likely rather in the opportunity costs. We would immediately think of how much more he could transport as a truck driver instead, since we have can easily afford a 20 ton truck for him.<br /><br />The problem of our infantry-centric formations is that they are saturated with this kind of capital-intensive approach and probably too weak on approaches with a low capital intensity.<br /><br /><br />About programmers; they were extremely scarce in Germany for a long time, and very well-paid. The industry associations whined loudly for years and the state governments responded by multiplying the universities' output of information tech graduates. The programmer wages crashed by 40% relative to the general wage development in a few years (IIRC).<br /><br />Every time an industry association is whining about a lack of skilled labour we should remember that this may be a feature, not a bug: Industry associations ought to whine loudly about a lack of skilled labour and labour in general during times of full employment, for example. One should always question their motives when they demand more graduates or more immigration.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-79340547679022438922013-07-11T22:00:23.964+02:002013-07-11T22:00:23.964+02:00Your point applies to more than just sweat-shop wo...Your point applies to more than just sweat-shop workers. It can also be seen in skilled services such as computer programming, design and legal research - areas where western companies are establishing branches or links in Asia to benefit not only from continuous 24-hour work through time zone shifts but also lower Asian wages for the same work. The end result is cheaper, faster production for western companies while simultaneously putting downwards pressure on western wages. <br /><br />To take this off on a tangent, do you see a loose connection between relative bargaining power and your previous post about porters? First-world porters would demand first-world wages, while (presumably local) third-world porters would work for the local going rate, which likely isn't very high. Consequently, why would anyone even consider trying to bring over dedicated western porters?F.noreply@blogger.com