tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post1741603269511087665..comments2024-03-27T20:37:08.065+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Heavy SPAAGs for the 2020s?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-42662587448400000552016-09-18T11:35:00.822+02:002016-09-18T11:35:00.822+02:00Sure there is an overarching concept, but I'm ...Sure there is an overarching concept, but I'm too lazy to finalize my book draft. :-)S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-3153817182677429262016-09-18T10:59:58.396+02:002016-09-18T10:59:58.396+02:00Sven often has some very specific and practical id...Sven often has some very specific and practical ideas (heavy SPAAG, multi-purpose MLR) - and may be there is now an abstract (and abstract only) concept covering (theoretically) all of them. http://warontherocks.com/2016/09/multi-domain-battle-a-new-concept-for-land-forces/Karelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15236107941843936832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-1162109350875757532016-09-14T02:15:27.722+02:002016-09-14T02:15:27.722+02:00http://survincity.com/2013/11/the-last-russian-ant...http://survincity.com/2013/11/the-last-russian-anti-aircraft-guns-of-152mm/<br /><br />152 mm Soviet KM-52 can reach 30km altitude. Up to 17 rounds/minute ROF with 49 pounds ammunition.<br />ömerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01089565139374086253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-82053381345729814162016-09-11T01:23:02.759+02:002016-09-11T01:23:02.759+02:00A GP gun (AD, AT and indirect fires) gun would ine...A GP gun (AD, AT and indirect fires) gun would inevitably be suboptimal and insufficient in one role.<br />It takes 120 mm against old, 130-135 mm against high end MBTs to be fully satisfactory in the AT department.<br />So if you go with 130 mm and a 12 rpm autoloader you may have the firepower for all three roles, but the vehicle would be bulky, impossible to protect properly and clearly suboptimal for duel situations against tanks and even IFVs.<br />One would also be forced to adapt naval 127 mm munitions for it since army 155 mm munitions would not fit. The barrel would also need to be rifled, which is suboptimal for AT.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-62774904032946026902016-09-09T22:23:11.496+02:002016-09-09T22:23:11.496+02:00Could you also add anti-tank to the repertoire? Th...Could you also add anti-tank to the repertoire? The obvious historical example of a dual use artillery piece is the German 8.8cm AA/AT; I also read it was used as an ad-hoc field artillery piece with timed fuses...<br /><br />I mention AT as they appear to be making a come back in Ukraine:<br /><br />https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/20150428.aspx<br /><br />If 152/155mm has lost its top dog position due to the ban on sub munitions then would it make sense to centralise on a "Tri-use" calibre, say 105 to 130mm?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10940535661399125656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-38780526458841787902016-09-08T20:53:44.088+02:002016-09-08T20:53:44.088+02:00I don't compare the hypothetical SPGs that ser...I don't compare the hypothetical SPGs that serve as heavy SPAAGs to missiles for a reason:<br />Missiles are superior, but you need to add many vehicles and much personnel to add a single missile battery. SPGs would merely need to have some extra software, maybe some extra kit of electronics on the roof and maybe four special rounds. That's enough to push the threat ceiling well past what ManPADS has on offer.<br /><br />Air defences don't need to be very lethal; they are already very useful if they are lethal enough to modify the hostile air power's behaviour (reduce their repertoire).<br />Strike aircraft flying at 25,000 ft won't detect and ID as many ground targets on most European terrains as when flying at 15,000 ft.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-64636399720054481562016-09-08T20:30:28.870+02:002016-09-08T20:30:28.870+02:00On the AA ceiling: a medium caliber AA gun (57mm -...On the AA ceiling: a medium caliber AA gun (57mm -76mm) has a maximum ordinate of ~6,000 meters, while a 127mm gun has a maximum ordinate of ~15,000 meters (effective range is obviously lower altitude).<br /><br />Heavy AAA guns certainly can be effective.<br /><br />Dual use artillery is always potentially attractive.<br /><br />I am not sure where the line between missile/gun is, or where the caliber breakouts are anymore.<br /><br />GABAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-56334550500994452392016-09-08T14:01:29.481+02:002016-09-08T14:01:29.481+02:00Draco and its predecessor OTOMATIC are naval DP gu...Draco and its predecessor OTOMATIC are naval DP guns on land vehicles, meant as heavy SPAAGs with land artillery purposes being an afterthought if ever mentioned at all.<br />This article was about giving SPGs a munition that makes the enemy fear ShoRAD with a higher ceiling than the more dedicated VShorAD (ManPADS) threat.<br /><br />DRACO comes close, but it uses a naval DP gun and isn't really a field artillery thing.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-17437730606476386422016-09-08T09:03:22.904+02:002016-09-08T09:03:22.904+02:00I had this idea some years ago and called it LART ...I had this idea some years ago and called it LART (Luftabwehr-Artillerie). And was laughed in many forums because of it, including your old home whq there all my posts about it were deleted.<br /><br />I want to add, that analog to the use of ATGM from Tank-Cannons (LAHAT and Co) you could also think about using GTAM in Artillery which would were out the tubes, but who cares in a peer war, which today could not be fighted by us (The West TM) in attritional ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-58756569191689602442016-09-08T07:22:56.809+02:002016-09-08T07:22:56.809+02:00There is actually mature 76 mm Italian Draco AAG s...There is actually mature 76 mm Italian Draco AAG system - and it seems to me that You simply don`t mention it. OK, those Italians... http://www.military-today.com/artillery/draco.htmKarelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15236107941843936832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-48572034058507830222016-09-08T00:42:13.208+02:002016-09-08T00:42:13.208+02:00Stabilized and automatic 6" and 8" gun m...Stabilized and automatic 6" and 8" gun mounts were used as shipboard AAA long ago.<br /><br />Maneuvering shells appear to be a weak and expensive counterpart to missile systems. On the other hand, the flack barrage remains an effective area deterrent to TACAIR: Vietnam and the 73 war demonstrated that attacking jets are quite vulnerable to simple flak.<br /><br />Compared to missiles, a maneuvering shell imposes formidable g-forces which in turn limits seeker head options, carries less explosive/fragmentation in the warhead, and are also less agile.<br /><br />As standoff munitions increase in performance, the missile is likely to remain the best counter to tactical aircraft.<br /><br />Gun systems best serve deal with drones, helicopters, and foolish jet pilots who get to low and close for their own good. The ZSU 23-4 and Gepard appear to be reasonable examples of SPAAG.<br /><br />GABAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com