tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post4025066662950084654..comments2024-03-16T11:54:44.590+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Foreign comments on the German attitude towards warUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-38188003502529482792012-05-08T20:39:24.729+02:002012-05-08T20:39:24.729+02:00@Anon;
look at the timeline. The reversal of war h...@Anon;<br />look at the timeline. The reversal of war happened before the first ground battle between Germans and Americans, in late 1942. The Americans were influencing the Cold War frontier (could have been the Rhine otherwise), not the question who 'won' in Europe.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-59229172625615346132012-05-08T16:35:48.155+02:002012-05-08T16:35:48.155+02:00Americans didn't start WW1 or WW2; they finish...Americans didn't start WW1 or WW2; they finished both. If it weren't for the enormous sacrifices of the American people, the Nazis would have swept the world.Back in the 1971 I was in France, my French friend surprised me when he said that the French hate Americans.Surprised, I said how come you hate them while they saved your nation twice in two world wars.<br />, he went to say that the Americans are of a nation without a history. Frankly,I felt sour because they were so ungrateful for a nation that sacrificed the lives of their dear ones to save some other nations.<br />However, the paranoia and prejudice that have infested the American political system blinded their sight and has turned them into war mongers.<br />The invasion of Iraq was an aggression by all means. Never mind Saddam, for he was a butcher and dictator, and Iraq is better off without him, but it is mostly the innocent civilians who are still paying the price of that war.<br />On the American side,about 5,000 soldiers have given their lives for an illusion called democracy. Maleki, the new and more brutal dictator of Iraq is taking the country to a no-so-far civil war. Being a extremist lunatic shi'ite, he and his loose gangs have massacred and displaced hundreds of Sunni civilians. Is that the democracy Americans have died for....<br />It is a pity when a nation loses the compass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-8973651988917499272009-06-01T16:39:36.772+02:002009-06-01T16:39:36.772+02:00Well I think we can agree on that completely...!Well I think we can agree on that completely...!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-73989933355823981922009-06-01T16:35:01.374+02:002009-06-01T16:35:01.374+02:00Yet it doesn't strike me as typical German, but ra...Yet it doesn't strike me as typical German, but rather as typical human.<br /><br />I bet that today's Russian Nazis didn't fully understand the Nazi position on the worthiness of Slavs.<br /><br />The right wing Americans didn't bother to use a reality check on their foreign policy ideology before they invaded countries.<br /><br />Failure to think completely about something before choosing a position is human, it's part of our fallibility and imperfect information.<br />That's IMO the continuity that you're seeing.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-54770641211392968982009-06-01T16:29:05.740+02:002009-06-01T16:29:05.740+02:00And there it is again the bulldozer of all kock-ou...And there it is again the bulldozer of all kock-out arguments: center-right. I need not answer to that...<br />And that's exactely what I ment. Even if the generation of 68 thougt themselves as anti-authoritarian they chose their political idols from the far left with total ignorance of their knowledge of their ideology. They had no idea of it? So much the worse! Again history repeated itselves: In 33 nobody read "Mein Kampf" and look what was said afterwards: We never knew! That's a striking continuity way beyond forms of goverment, laws etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-80293328498942973292009-06-01T10:53:16.839+02:002009-06-01T10:53:16.839+02:00I do not contest that modern Germany was influence...I do not contest that modern Germany was influenced by its history - that's obvious.<br />I contest that it's appropriate to speak of 33-45 Germany and 90-09 Germany as if it was one.<br /><br />The people, state, laws, norms, society, borders and to a significant degree even the language are different. The experiences of the Weimar Republic and the 3rd Reich were not done by the Federal Republic and the overwhelming majority of its people - they are instead lessons from a time long gone, never experienced by 4/5 of today's Germans.<br /><br />By the way; I think your view of the 68ers is too close to right-center stereotypes about them (and superficial).<br />The vast majority of the 68's movement was very anti-authoritarian. They lacked proper idols for that, so some chose revolutionaries they knew little about as second-best idols.<br /><br />edit: I got a hint that I mixed up contend and contest, so this is a edited comment.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-59894014553595315442009-06-01T02:46:33.504+02:002009-06-01T02:46:33.504+02:00I would take exception to many of your points, how...I would take exception to many of your points, however I think this encapsulates them all, you wrote:<br /><br />"The opposite of victims are perpetrators, and it could be argued that Germans are not only victims but also perpetrators of WW2 and holocaust."<br /><br />I think you'll find that most if not all other Americans could only begin this discussion by ending that sentence:<br /><br />"...and it could be argued that Germans are not only perpetrators but victims of WW2 and [the] holocaust."<br /><br />I do not believe that the sins of the parents are the sins of the children, but they are their debts.<br /><br />Let me say otherwise that I very much enjoy your blog.<br /><br />Lloyd<br />Chicagolloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17366695687502549255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-58465113650033726552009-05-31T17:23:34.281+02:002009-05-31T17:23:34.281+02:00Well I do not think that my taste in movies is rel...Well I do not think that my taste in movies is relevant for the topic. Neither are those films. If I am an exeption there I can live with it quite well. <br />But I am pleased you mentioned the overrated 68ies. I do not think their influence went that deep. First their "ideology" was a direct reaction to their parent's generation. More important seem s to me their way of "changing things". They had a strange afiliation to totalitarian regimes (Lenin, Mao, Che, Ho-Chi-Minh, Fidel) which they thought to be the solution for all problems of capitalism, fascism and (which is very odd) democracy. Where exactely is the severe change of mind in comparison to '33? And don't tell me about women wearing short skirts...<br />Of course I do not account individuals representatives of entire nations. Therfore I do not accuse Russians or Americans of their past (especially with my German background). You cannot force people to redress things which cannot be undone. But the point was that Germans today are influenced by past experience. To deny that would simply mean to neglect 60 years of development. Just one example: The words futile and war in german parlance are so closely tied together that you could write it as one word. That's a result of history. But ask a British or a Russian. Do you really think they consider their participation in WW2 was this useless? As a result they do not transfer this experience to their present-day behavior.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-74194962908090519062009-05-31T14:45:05.103+02:002009-05-31T14:45:05.103+02:00The society had its roots in pre-45, of course - b...The society had its roots in pre-45, of course - but it was changed thoroughly during the 60's.<br /><br />The generation of Germans who had power in the Third Reich (approx. 40+ y.o.) left the working age during the 60's, began to fade during the 70's and is now almost entirely gone.<br /><br />"Therefore all cultural changes and development in the aftermath are a direct result of their actions:"<br /><br />You know that this is not true. The keyword is "68er Generation". It wasn't the old generation who changed the face of Germany.<br /><br />Back to your assertion of continuity:<br />The USA is no slave-owner society although it has undeniably those roots, right?<br />Would you accuse an average Russian of the invasion of Finland in 1939? No? Why not?<br /><br />Many people like to personate nations, but that's an oversimplification of reality.<br /><br />I can drive a car and there's some connection to what this car did years ago, but it wasn't me who drove over a child with the car years ago. It was the previous owner.<br /><br />By the way; I know many who have a fun time seeing Nazis getting kicked in the ass in movies. The success of such movies in Germany tells me that you're likely an exception.<br /><br />It's natural and unsurprising that a German disagrees with me on this matter, just as it's not difficult to find an American disagreeing with the quoted guy on it.<br /><br /><br />Yet, it's obvious that almost nobody is a true representative of his nation. I cannot claim to have done statistically significant polls on the matter. I wasn't elected as Bundespräsident a few days ago, that was Mr. Köhler.<br />I am not entitled to representation, but to an opinion and its expression.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-50997167420142963092009-05-31T14:15:36.523+02:002009-05-31T14:15:36.523+02:00I could contradict many of your statements in this...I could contradict many of your statements in this article but I'll leave it at just one: your claim the WW2 generation is not "us". One cannot dispute that todays Germany and German society was built up and formed by this generation not by a complete new one. Therefore all cultural changes and development in the aftermath are a direct result of their actions: without "them" there would've never been an "us". Even so we had a strange way to deal with "their" deeds. They themselves told the World Hitler was responsible. Later it was the SS also. Today we additionally like to accuse the Wehrmacht so as these organization was a seperate and insular part of the societey which acted on its own. The Wehrmacht-exhibition is a good example. That's no "coming to terms" but rather another repression. WW2 is part of our own identity. "They" are our own people and their actions completely our own responsibiliy. And I am certainly not happy when Hollywood kills another "Nazi"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-22335858916950151192009-05-31T06:14:33.306+02:002009-05-31T06:14:33.306+02:00That would have been VERY stupid and disadvantageo...That would have been VERY stupid and disadvantageous.<br />Germany would have got an additional war preparation boost by officially switching to wartime economy while the British and French didn't.<br /><br />The Americans were in no position to harm Germany on their own anyway and their army would have been of no relevance till 1941 even if France and UK joined at a later date.<br /><br />The only powers who could have intervened with effect in 1938 were France and Soviet Union.<br /><br />And it wouldn't have been about defence of democracy and freedom either - keep in mind that the Sudetenland was indeed mostly inhabited by Germans and they weren't exactly well-represented by the parliament in Prague.<br /><br />Such a stupid division of Germany would have spelled new troubles for the next centuries until reversed - see previous post.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-26959145436362571622009-05-31T04:00:58.111+02:002009-05-31T04:00:58.111+02:00That's the most diplomatic thing I've ever read.That's the most diplomatic thing I've ever read.Dr. Lunynoreply@blogger.com