tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post4656188078122986510..comments2024-03-27T20:37:08.065+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Shock vs. fires - the ancient choiceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-79512733092641952122014-07-03T05:25:48.892+02:002014-07-03T05:25:48.892+02:00Related:
http://www.thethoughtspot.net/lessonsinh...Related: <br />http://www.thethoughtspot.net/lessonsinhistory/2014/6/11/how-the-bayonet-replaced-the-pike<br /><br />Also, thanks for the link back to my site. It sounds like we are interested in many of the same things and I look forward to reading more of your posts!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09530959694320429613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-51994053004377688552014-05-10T00:49:54.533+02:002014-05-10T00:49:54.533+02:00My understanding is that in urban fighting, where ...My understanding is that in urban fighting, where the blind approaches and tight quarters meant a higher likelihood that the guys would actually come to within arms-reach of each other, the troops that survived the initial encounter tended to prefer single-handed weapons; knives and apparently pistols (in particular the large-caliber revolvers like the Soviet M1895 Nagant) were prized.<br /><br />One of my early platoon sergeants hung onto his wooden-handled entrenching spade after we went to the 1980s U.S.-issue folding metal spade; he said that the wood handle spade was a useful melee tool; you folded the blade down to the 90-degree position and then used it like a big hatchet.<br /><br />I tend to agree with you overall, though, that the number of actual "bayonet fights" through military history has probably been a) quite small, and b) overrated as a tactic...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-90393569847182640442014-05-06T12:27:03.672+02:002014-05-06T12:27:03.672+02:00The debate about the longer reach (particularly ba...The debate about the longer reach (particularly bayonet vs. bayonet) belongs to the 18th century. The longer reach was never THAT important, for a spear and even more so a spike bayonet have a critical weakness: They're easy to push aside (single-handed spear more than bayonet) and it's very difficult to recover from a failed push. Basically all what a man with a knife or infantry sabre needs to do is push the bayonet aside (parry or offensively) and enter the infight.<br /><br />Note how line infantry was equipped with infantry sabres (blade with a large radius, still useful for thrusting) - cutting motion attacks were very well within their repertoire, and cutting motion is what you can still do at the most close range.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-12075182085763613442014-05-06T12:00:03.889+02:002014-05-06T12:00:03.889+02:00'The bayonet was -even when matured as a techn...'The bayonet was -even when matured as a technology- a very poor melee weapon.' Thats not true. In a confined space, swords are inferior to bayonets, since they don't have enough room to perform slashs (and rifle bayonets have longer reach). Fighting in open order drills with a sword carrys a high risk of injuring your comrades.<br /><br />'And this is why the old times' debates about shock attack vs. fires attack is utterly irrelevant today.' In modern times, the definition has changed. What we call shock action today is done at rifle distance rather than CQC range. Likewise, what we now can fire action is done at artillery range (rather than rifle distance). Having an army that relys solely on one or the other is misguided, check out this article for why: The Limitations of Standoff Firepower-Based Operations.<br /><br />'I suppose knife bayonets make sense, for you end up having a rifle and a knife anyway, and there's almost no compromise necessary to enable knife bayonet usage.' You really ought to heed the words of phil west. According to him, bayonets designed to also act as utility knives generally offer the worst of both worlds. We should model new bayonets on what worked best in the past: Probably the best spike bayonet was the sks', while the best sword bayonet would be the lee enfields (specifically, the pattern 1903).kesler12noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-43030274810550733122014-05-05T15:47:38.449+02:002014-05-05T15:47:38.449+02:00The bayonet, was primarly used in Fibua and like c...The bayonet, was primarly used in Fibua and like clashes, where there wasnt as easy an escape. And regarding the 5 wounds by bayonet by surgeon general larry, its says casualties, and not dead. Wouldnt the bayonet be deadlier if you repeat stabbed a guy, in stead of one musket ball hit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-11355186506422790282014-05-04T16:07:30.412+02:002014-05-04T16:07:30.412+02:00Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen liess de... Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen liess den Protagonisten seines Werkes "Der seltzame Springinsfeld" im 13. Kapitel über die Pikeniere höhnen: <br /><br /><br />"Und dannenhero glaube ich daß der jenige der einen Piquenirer nidermacht (den er sonst verschonen köndte) einen unschuldigen ermordet / und solchen Todtschlag nimmermehr verantworten kan; dann ob dise arme Schiebochsen (mit disem Spöttischen Namen werden sie genennet) gleich creirt seyn / ihre Brigaden vor dem Einhauen der Reutter im freyen Feld zubeschützen / so thun sie doch vor sich selbst niemand kein Leid / und geschicht dem allererst recht / der einem oder dem anderen in seinen langen Spies rennet. Jn Summa ich habe mein Tage viel scharpffe Occasionen gesehen / aber selten wahrgenommen / daß ein Piquenirer jemand umgebracht hette." <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-76289739463824390112014-05-04T12:30:31.273+02:002014-05-04T12:30:31.273+02:00The battle of Poltava was in 1709. The painting ho...The battle of Poltava was in 1709. The painting however, was made in 1726 ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02846779945119767162noreply@blogger.com