tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post5567515787237838341..comments2024-03-16T11:54:44.590+01:00Comments on Defence and Freedom: Mechanised / infantry mix in NE EuropeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-63625504758009585132016-07-05T20:27:43.095+02:002016-07-05T20:27:43.095+02:00Look at the history of the positional warfare in t...Look at the history of the positional warfare in the Alps 1915-1918. There was no need for entire mountain divisions. Mountain and regular infantry battalions intermingled always makes more sense.<br />The 3,000+ m regions didn't need be defended or attacked, for advancing through such areas without capturing passes or valleys was impossible logistically.<br /><br />BTW, the Jäger Divisions of 1942 were formed in anticipation of a Caucasus campaign...S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-80062385713054296872016-07-05T19:56:10.528+02:002016-07-05T19:56:10.528+02:00There was one, after the Anschluss the very fine A...There was one, after the Anschluss the very fine Austrian army fell into the Wehrmacht lap with a high level of mountain troops in the west part of Austria.<br /> <br />The first mountain division was formed from a brigade of Bavarians and another of Austrians, while the 2nd 3rd (and latter the 5th) where formed from the Austrian army in the Tyrol Wehrkreis.<br />At that time, Italy was a possible opponent, and the invasion of Switzerland an option. After the invasion of USSR only a few units that were mountain troops were formed. <br />Instead from 1942 the Wehrmacht formed Jager divisions, for difficult (but not to difficult) terrain. <br />The mountain divisions were either fighting in Norway or Balkans, in both cases being well suited for the missions. <br /><br />So while not very useful for a Baltic case now, they had they justifications from 1938 to 1940, when the bulk was created and then could be employed as divisions latter. Madnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18111733709081883454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-65199026835270166232016-07-05T00:23:58.311+02:002016-07-05T00:23:58.311+02:00A brigade should have its dismount strength be det...A brigade should have its dismount strength be determined with its mission profile(s)n material and personnel availability considerations and likely terrain in mind. There should be "enough" infantry and dismounted scouts to accomplish several typical dismounted combat and security missions for which no support by an infantry Rgt or Bn could be expected.<br /><br />In my opinion this includes a small infantry force directly with the MBTs at all times (in HAPCs), a larger fully offroad-capable infantry force (in APCs) that is available immediately whenever the battlegroup or brigade switches to mostly dismounted combat such as clearing a village and finally an infantry detachment that serves as infantry reserves and as security force for the support elements (in standard lorries turned into cheap APCs).<br /><br />We're actually almost close to this at the divisional level, since both of our divisions combine 1-2 mechanised brigades with 1-2 infantry-centric brigades. The current army uses IFVs instead of the HAPC+tracked APC combo, though.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-76230462163623785042016-07-04T23:32:38.587+02:002016-07-04T23:32:38.587+02:00So, how does the above post jive with your posts o...So, how does the above post jive with your posts on German armored forces - an armored battalion consisting of tanks/HAPC/RFCV and a second battalion of infantry mounted in Boxer vehicles? I guess my point is how would you organize the armored brigade or is it irrelevant? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-58467185645314242852016-07-04T23:27:51.510+02:002016-07-04T23:27:51.510+02:00Thank you for the reply. Thank you for the reply. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-71264474745692426572016-07-04T20:44:49.383+02:002016-07-04T20:44:49.383+02:00Fitness elite forces may or may not make sense, bu...Fitness elite forces may or may not make sense, but there was simply no reason for organising such troops in divisions.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-60057040419492604802016-07-04T20:41:59.758+02:002016-07-04T20:41:59.758+02:00mechanied Bde/Div = strong tracked AFV component (...mechanied Bde/Div = strong tracked AFV component ("mechanised infantry Bde", "tank bde", "Armored BCT" etc.)<br /><br />motorised Bde/Div = fully motorised, possibly many wheeled AFV but no or very few tracked AFVs. <br />The Soviet-style MRD was just below of what I call "mechanised": https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf<br /><br />There's another interpretation in which even merely motorised formations without any protected vehicles would be called "mechanized", but that's rather colloquial.S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-40103916590360947902016-07-04T20:32:07.878+02:002016-07-04T20:32:07.878+02:00The TB aren't exactly a good representation of...The TB aren't exactly a good representation of what you would face in Europe.<br />A German insight from Spain was that a 20 mm tank gun would suffice to kill T-26 tanks...S Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359796414832859686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-12509690776182164892016-07-04T18:49:20.910+02:002016-07-04T18:49:20.910+02:00I'm somewhat confused based on your posts over...I'm somewhat confused based on your posts over the years. When you say mechanized forces are you referring to tanks, HAPCs and APC infantry organized together under a brigade HQS? So, let's say all "light infantry" would be organized in separate battalions and attached to mechanized brigades when and where needed? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-38035567280487196542016-07-04T11:18:57.570+02:002016-07-04T11:18:57.570+02:00Regarding Artillery:
The 70% (in ww2) was due to ...Regarding Artillery:<br /><br />The 70% (in ww2) was due to fragmentation weapons. So no matter if it is 105mm, air bomb, hand grenade, mortar round or gun round it would count as fragmentation weapons. <br /><br />Mortars were particularly giving the big guns a run for the casualties infliction. <br />A lot of those items are not artillery, or would not be part of the artillery group. <br /><br />Now that artillery has become more accurate it might be different, but without direct action very little casualties were inflicted by barrages. Hitting the enemy on the move would produce effects, but an opponent that is entrenched with proper fake positions and dispersion would need combat for artillery fire to have an impression. <br /><br />Mountain divisions made sense in so much if you needed higher fitness requirements and a logistically lighter force. <br />The Wehrmacht did have special high attitude battalions, that got attached to the mountain divisions before being dissolved. <br /> <br />But I agree that the weakness in the artillery was a trade off that was not worth it. Madnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18111733709081883454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-386077914312449748.post-58623572000528743622016-07-04T09:29:10.161+02:002016-07-04T09:29:10.161+02:00There was an interesting article in our local (Est...There was an interesting article in our local (Estonian) military magazine about the experiences of Canadian amoured forces. As it turns out, the biggest benefit wasn't necessarily the big gun but rather the mobility. Tanks could creat pathways through places that would otherwise be impassable. This made the Canadian forces much less predictable to Taliban insurgents and thus much more effective.<br /><br />Just a little sidenote on this whole topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com